Friday, July 27, 2007

On MFA Programs…

Yesterday I bought a fiction issue of the Atlantic Monthly. Not for fiction – though of course I intend to read it too – but for an article on MFA Programs by Edward J. Delaney (I swear I know this name from somewhere!). The article itself is available online, but only to subscribers. However, Jessica Murphy’s interview with Delaney can be accessed without a subscription.

The article sort of outraged me. Much of what Delaney says is common sense and I don’t have any issues with that. What I have issues with are his lists. He ranks Top 10 programs overall, as well as Top 5 with notable alumni, top five with distinguished faculty, top five highly selective programs, top five well-funded, etc etc…

Part of my outrage has to do with his omission of Syracuse from any of these lists. When it comes to Syracuse, he's positive, but brief. When listing distinguished faculty, he acknowledges George Saunders and Mary Karr, but doesn’t mention Mary Gaitskill. Is it because he doesn’t consider her distinguished enough? Or because his “research” is outdated.

Personal gripes aside, I’d love to know how he figured out his top 10 list. Some of the programs, such as Irvine, Michigan, FSU, UVA, clearly deserve to be there. They are well funded, selective, and from what I’ve heard, fairly nurturing. Others, like BU, of which he talks endlessly, seem like a questionable choice. He quotes several former students who are critical of BU/Lesley Epstein's methods – and I can think of a few more – but that doesn’t stop him from including it in the top 10 list. Is that because BU is his own alma-mater? The last time I checked – and please correct me if I’m wrong – BU was still a one-year program with less than spectacular funding.

Speaking of funding, apparently these days it’s not enough to fund everyone. The funding has to be competitive, as in 20,000 a year (see Michigan).

The discussion of faculty is important, but I feel Delaney puts way too much emphasis on fame and not enough on quality of teaching, accessibility, and supportiveness. Take NYU, for example, another one of Delaney’s questionable picks – do they offer any funding? NYU might have E.L. Doctorow – but how closely can one expect to work with him? Or with Derek Walcott at BU? Ethan Canin of Iowa is quoted as saying, “he aims to be blunt when he must, without getting nasty.” Oh really? That’s not what I’ve heard. (To his credit, though, he admits that about one-third of his students hates him.)

To be fair, Delaney does mention a lot of interesting programs and teachers – Robert Olen Butler at FSU, Michael Cunningham at Brooklyn College, Barry Hannah at Mississippi, Brian Evenson at Brown. And yes, I understand how it must be impossible to write on this subject without mentioning Iowa. But still, enough of BU. Enough of Iowa. Enough of lists. Why not go to places where students are happy and treated with support and respect? Why not ask them?

6 comments:

paul said...

hi ellen. glad to have stumbled onto your page. and glad to see that you're doing well--i'm looking forward to your book!

i agree with you about mfa lists. it's a shame that syracuse was overlooked. i chose syracuse over a full fellowship offer to a PhD program, because its reputation was that good among the professors and others i talked with and got advice from. actually, when i told my college advisor--a novelist--that i'd been accepted to the syracuse mfa, she reacted as though i'd won the lottery. the program, for a lot of people, is still the house that carver and wolff built, and the house is only strengthened by the presence of george saunders and mary gaitskill. those of us who went through the program know what we got, and hopefully it won't be overlooked anymore now that more of its alums are successfully landing books with publishers--you, of course, and also phil lamarche (random house), aaron fagan (salt), courtney queeney (random house), rebecca curtis (harpercollins), tryfon tolides (penguin), cheryl strayed (houghton mifflin), etc. and from what i hear others will have manuscripts landing on publishers' desks soon. so i have a feeling mr. delaney will soon be--if he isn't already--embarrassed by his omission.

my best to you up there in connecticut.

Anonymous said...

Ellen, your post makes me want to read the article... can you post the lists so I don't have to?

There were at least 2-3 people in my program (Irvine) who wanted to go to Syracuse to work with Saunders but didn't get in. But then UCI has full funding for all students, which most programs don't. And now they've got Ron Carlson.

I've heard awful things about BU! I don't understand why anyone would want to go to that program if they'd talked to most of the alum, unless they were one of the lucky few who got funding.

I could go on... but what kind of a hello is that? Glad to see you & Ian are doing well in CT -- Steve and I will be heading down there next month and hopefully we'll get to see you! --Erin

... said...

Thank you, Paul, for the words of support : ) It's great to hear from you!

Erin, here are the lists:

Top 10 (in alphabetical order):
BU
Irvine
Cornell
FSU
Iowa
Johns Hopkins
Michigan
NYU
U of Texas, Michener Center
UVA

Top 5 w/ Notable Alumni
BU
Irvine
Columbia
Iowa
UVA

Top 5 w/ Distinguished Faculty
BU
Columbia
Iowa
NYU
UVA

Top 5 Highly Selective
Brown
Irvine
Johns Hopkins
Michener Center
UVA

Top 5 Well-Funded
Brown
Cornell
Michigan
Michener
UVA

Top 5 Innovative/Unique
U of Arkansas
Brown
Chatham University
U of Nevada, Las Vegas
U of North Carolina at Wilmington

Top 5 Up-and-coming
Brooklyn College
U of Mississippi
Ohio State U
Rutgers U at Newark
U of Wisconsin

Top 5 Ph.D
FSU
Houston
U of Nevada, Las Vegas
USC
U of Utah

Top 5 Low-Residency
Antioch U
Bennington Colege
Pacific U
Vermont College
Warren Willson College

Jane Roper said...

I agree -- lists are for the most part bunk.

What really bothered me about the article is that student satisfaction seemed to play no role in his determination of what made for a good MFA program.

Agreed about the teaching thing, too. A prominent writer does not a good teacher make! As for Ethan Canin, I'd say it was closer to half. (For me, it depended on the day!)

Amy Charles said...

Hi, Ellen. Look, why do you care about this? I did my MFA long ago, for whatever it's worth, but I can't imagine why anyone who's serious would use lists. Faculty are what matter; you need people who will understand you and who have good connections. Not money, not nurture. You can get money anywhere by doing that working thing; nurture you have to get from a mother or figure out how to find on your own -- remember, in two years you're out on your ass again.

I chose Iowa because it was one of only two programs that did not emphasize teaching (I wanted to write, not teach) and because I'd read the first few pages of _Housekeeping_. That was enough. It was the right place, too. Marilynne understood better than I did what I was trying to do; Frank was a tough, good teacher, and a very sharp reader, and a good match for Marilynne. And I was left alone to do what I could do.

Supportive, happy, respect...no, to me these were not important in a program, and they're still not important. They're nice, but they're not what the work is about. The question was "Are there good readers here? Good teachers?" As it happened, I was treated very well. If I hadn't been, though, it still would've been time well spent.

I finally got around to watching (most of) _A Chorus Line_, and the cattle-call scenes are wonderful -- the pace looks cruel at first, but soon you see that it isn't cruel at all; it's matter-of-fact. It's just, as my grandfather used to say, life in the big city. I feel much the same way about these programs. However tough they may seem, they're a piece of cake compared with the world outside. Just think, $985 to tell the world about your work, results not guaranteed. How many people write the check?

... said...

Amy, thanks so much for your response! I do agree with much of what you're saying.

I guess I care because I have students, every year, who are trying to figure out where to apply and they sometimes have to rely on these lists.

I also think money is important -- as in not going into a huge debt (a la Columbia) that you will then have no means to pay off.

Ultimately, like you said, it comes down to faculty who gets you and to being left alone to do the work.

I'll have to watch A Chorus Line one of these days.

Ellen